Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. It is a haloalkane and hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that has thermodynamic properties, potential global warming for one hundred years, and insignificant ozone depletion. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. When you add fluorescent tracer dye to with the refrigerant oil it helps to track down leaks that push oil out of the system. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. . Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. #13. Then when it is switched off for a few minutes and then back on, the air cools again. Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. Instead of using R12, its preferable to use R134a because it is very easy to find in the market, its sold at an affordable price, and is environmentally friendly. Any advice appreciated. It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. The non-flammables can have R22 type gas which is not compatible with most rubber hoses or they have gases that contribute to global warming. Thomas Jefferson, Thanks,OK, I'm starting to feel a little better about it. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . . It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . The aux fan didn't switch on though and I didn't check the high side temperature. The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. Hope this helps. R134a has the chemical formula CF3CH2F and is known as tetrafluoroethane. The AC usually does not work at all. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. A final difference is that most (though not all) R-1234yf cars will have a Suction Line Heat Exchanger. There are three different refrigerants officially sanctioned by the EPA for automotive usage: r-12, r-. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. The current expansion valve is FF - 1/4 - C. Is it neccesary to replace this valve? In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . If 50 degrees across the cond. 5) A/C System Failure. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. I've done the FSM test and with 81F ambient, the vent should be 50F. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. There are other refrigerants: some of which may work, some of which dont work, some of which will destroy your a/c system and some of which are dangerous. a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. 5. 3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12. R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? R134a vs R12 refrigerant? Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? Your average garage that works on a/c on the side probably would not have this. Biggest you can fit in there is best. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. I'm having the same concern. ambulance tailgate conversion And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. An orifice tube is just a fixed nozzle that pisses refrigerant into the evaporator without any sort of feedback. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. That is for the compressor, drier, expansion valve and condenser. PDF R134a R513A - Tecumseh Products Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. Also, they are mostly used in refrigeration and automotive air conditioning systems. R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. I have the original (R12) style expansion valve in the Maverick AC system. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for system losses. by | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. R12 to R134a change expansion valve? - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air . The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. #4. You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. Expansion Valves Catalog E-1, July 2012. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. Is there a graph? The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . The crossover point is approximately at 64F. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. = R134a Charge Level. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. $21 . R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). Welcome to rxmechanic.com. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. we convert older systems where i work all the time and they work fine. The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. The problem with these so called drop in replacements is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. Right now you know you have a bit too much, but with a CR4P compressor this is an insurance policy. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. sparkee said: Thanks for the Service Bulletin. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. B. Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. George Bray on Wed August 31, 2005 5:03 PM I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. If you have the work done, be sure you find a true "A/C" shop that can make up lines. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. The substitute that we used for R-12 was the new HFC called R-134a. But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. I just got some hi/lo side gauges so I'm going to take readings, if they are needed. However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. System has been working fine for a year. At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. hardly noticable. VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. Once you have replaced the OEM condensor with a PF unit, you will need to make custom hoses to mate with your OEM system. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. We sometimes use a relay switched from the compressor clutch to run fans. R134a. Jun 17, 2011. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. Warning: "continue" targeting switch is equivalent to "break".Did you mean to use "continue 2"? The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. The only material difference between automotive A/C and a window A/C unit or refrigerator is that in the home application, the components are all inside the same rectangular box, but in the automotive application, the components are distributed throughout the car. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? PDF Experimental analysis of Thermostatic expansion valve, Constant The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. It does not "pool" to any degree in a large amount anywhere. Hmmmm. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a . R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. Effects of alternative refrigerants on the ejector dimensions for If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? R12 contains a chemical called chlorine that destroys the ozone layer, thereby causing potential environmental risk. I think the way to go here is1. It won't be optimal, though. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. But R22 is almost equally damaging. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. About four or five years ago, I guy with an MB came here with the same problem, that tread was over six pages long. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. Minor adjustments to the expansion valve and other controls may be necessary for some plans. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. Talk about what services you provide. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. This is the part that controls the system pressures. Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. R134a Expansion valve different from R12? - Automotive Air Conditioning A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues.You could improve the cooling capacity by replacing the condensor with a high effeciency parallel flow unit. I'm not sure. Expansion Valve. Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Operating Pressure/Temperature Differences The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. This kit comes complete with Expansion valve, o-ring kit, and 1ft. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . The old compressor used R12 and the new unit will be R134a. 4) Inconsistent Airflow. It won't be optimal, though. As illustrated in the chart below, the curves below run together nearly throughout the curve, only slightly breaking paths at around 250 psig/150 degrees and above Flammability/Safety R-1234yf has been designated as MILDLY flammable. James10952001. Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. Shorting the plug for the refrigerant switch should run the fan when the compressor is on. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. compressor, condenser, evaporator and expansion valve are specifically designed for use with R134a. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. Thanks for the input. On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. For R12, its mineral oil. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. Dimensioning of refrigeration components - part 2 - Danfoss AC R12 to R134A Conversion | MR2 Owners Club Forum R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. How is 1234yf different from . Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. R12 to 134A conversion. | Allpar Forums Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. Is there a difference in the expansion valve for R12 as opposed to R-134a? Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. Are you sure you have an R4? The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. Comparatively, larger R134a molecules should take more space, and a smaller amount might be required.
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