%PDF-1.3 Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Blogger BRITTE, BURY AND OTHERS Magic of hunting gun Charlier Ch. weapon. Braekers Charles & Cie Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . How Foreign Guns Invaded the U.S. - Bloomberg.com Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Arnold Mathias Bernard Emile & Cie Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. Miscellaneous Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. carefully bound by threads. Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. Colot Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. Bodson TH. is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. Members . Comblain Hubert Joseph late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. Jun 21, 2012. typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. Do you have any information on them? Their total production was around 180,000 guns. firearms. There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. Anonymes Belgian Arms cie Counet Philippe Antique Double Barrel Shotgun: Identifying, Valuing, and Buying The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Can anybody shed some light here? Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks Proof Marks or Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? and an eagles head. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. production. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. Bertrand Antoine I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. The Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. Tel: 01707 709372; When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Dallas, Donald. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. 1860-1870. The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. It was mandatory post-1924. Shotgun Manufacturers - Types of Shotguns for Auction at GunBroker.com Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. Thank y'all again! source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. Berleur Michel Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. I know the bottom image. be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. I'll test it very cautiously. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph Collette Lopold ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Sorry! To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. this book online and pay it through Paypal. The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as Bonzon & Arents & Cie Bernard Ernest A strong good product that will last for long usage in your If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. Comblain H. J. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Ancion Jacques & Cie He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. Hi Gerard and everyone! Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they Marlin-Savage-Winchester A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Rifles & Musket Information. M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" A "Greener" double? Thomas Jefferson. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? Warnant Top Break Double Action Revolver - Revivaler We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof determination. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. No maker's name at all. (most sales were in the 1930s). Any idea how to date it? 10 Biggest American Gun Companies Share a Rich History - Wide Open Spaces A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. firearms books bibliary. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. old belgian gun makers - Telecore Digital Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. Identification on a Belgian Liege musket, real or repro? On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. These include the country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. or E.C. The blue is rough but the action works. Belgian Liege gunmakers Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Gun Barrel Proof Marks - Dave Cushman On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . 4 0 obj Bertrand Joseph As I've said, I'm not an expert. Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. Pictures would help! I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . It's complete. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. It is located just above the circle with ELG. Brancquaert Louis since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in . Arendt Maurice Clment Walter manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a Can you send me some, Ed? Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. 3 vols. Beckers G. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! The Model 1889 Mauser: A Rifle That Saved Paris It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. Due to the Bernimolin visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques Burlet wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter .
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